Old Dog V
The Passover And The Day Of Atonement
Bob Neumann, 2/15/2003
Dear Stephen and the WPA,
It has been a very interesting night in many ways. Yesterday was a very strange day with many facets. Amidst everything Stephen you placed several questions about shades and shadows, threads, images and patterns and sequences. At the end of post 7305 you asked………
“Do you then argue Bob that the crucifixion of Jesus did not fulfill the Day of Atonement. If so, what event in the future would fulfill it? ” Now i did not think i was refuting anything except Mr Wyatt’s stretch of the imagination. Was i trying to create an argument of any sort? Stephen, it was not my intent.
John the IMMERSER said….BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD. Many would say that is a direct reference to the DAY OF ATONEMENT. Only it is not. Within the whole system of sacrifice that GOD instructed MOSES there is a specific SIN OFFERING….also called a TRESPASS OFFERING. But we all know that the Tabernacle and the “belief system” created in the desert was a “type” and “shadow”. Like the FEASTS were pointing to SOMETHING ELSE yet to come. That “YET TO COME” is something else. It is a “PERSON”….an individual….a MESSIAH…a SUFFERING SERVANT…a KING OF GLORY…A LION….A LAMB.…
Now the religious system was just a template people walked through year by year. A religious “belief system” that people followed year in and year out. But what is interesting is that when said people could not “fulfill” this “belief system” they “SUBSTITUTED” for it…replaced it…with something else. SO….when the system GOD instructed HIS PEOPLE TO FOLLOW was implausible or impossible man exchanged THE TABERNACLE / TEMPLE….which belonged to GOD for SYNAGOGS….”sacrifice” for “a rabbinical denomination”.
HEBREWS 10 puts it into perspective.…
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The Old Testament system basically brought “covered” to man’s sins…not forgiveness. Likewise the DAY OF ATONEMENT was in essence an annual contract requiring renewal each and every year. In verse 10 the term i used several times yesterday shows up again…SANCTIFIED.…
My firm belief is that ABBA was never happy with killing animals….whether it was to get the animal skins to cover the nakedness caused by SIN in the GARDEN….or the lamb ABLE saw as his FIRST FRUITS unto THE LORD. So why did HE ACCEPT “burnt offerings” from NOAH? Tell JOB’S “friends” to beg JOB to sacrifice for them? The whole DEUTERONOMY, LEVITICUS, NUMBERS “religious system” that warped and expanded over time to be what the PHARISEES ESPOUSED LONG AND LOUDLY,,,,…..and JESUS detested?
Could there be a difference between what GOD INTENDED and MAN ESTABLISHED? Are we talking about 2000 years ago….or today? Was HEBREWS 10 just a blank condemnation of a religious belief system….or is there more to it?
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Actually it is a WITNESS for JESUS…sound INSTRUCTION in THE NEW COVENANT..…
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
In verse 25 we see the classic “assembling of ourselves together” which many say is the same as going to a specific church on a weekly basis. In the original greek the term “assembling” is a term used in architecture and construction. As in being “fitted together”…assembled according to manufacturer’s instructions….we get the term “edification” the same way….to
“BUILD”. As in edifice….which is an archaic term. But popular for obvious reasons.
26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
From verse 1 through 25 we have stuff everyone can be sort of comfortable with. Verse 25 is probably the most quoted but what follows it seldom is. Verse 26 brings up another term i kept running into yesterday…THE TRUTH…to be exact…. “the knowledge of THE TRUTH. Now the AUTHOR of Hebrews says “if we SIN WILLFULLY after….”…we come into understanding THE TRUTH. Now there is a price for disobedience in the OLD TESTAMENT…read Deuteronomy 28.…
But many say that the NEW COVENANT has no recompense for sin….even willful sin….once saved always saved. Is a very popular teaching to many. But scripture does not line up with it.…
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
One of the greatest sermons ever recorded has been brought down to us from over 200 years ago where Jonathon Edwards built powerfully on verse 31. Many say GOD will not judge HIS PEOPLE. How they got that revelation is a matter of conjecture. There once was a time where “fire and brimstone” preaching was a norm where the idea was to scare people into heaven. It worked for many…or so it would seem. But lately things changed. Christianity shifted.…
In Hebrews 10:32 it almost seems the author was talking to the church of SMYRNA….a persecuted church that Paul admonished to REJOICE, AND AGAIN I SAY REJOICE.…
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. The persecuted CHURCH was THE CHURCH….in the time of THE BOOK OF ACTS. Through most of the world HIS CHURCH still is persecuted. Paul told Timothy to be a GOOD SOLDIER….putting up with all the nasty things a soldier faces every day. Likewise Paul instructed the Church in Ephesus to put on a LEGIONNAIRE’S ARMOR….daily….so we could STAND….HOLD…against the attacks of the enemy. RETREAT…FALLING BACK was not an option Paul discussed. Neither did the author in Hebrews.…
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
To retreat from THE TRUTH as it is revealed…has been revealed…leads to “perdition”..… again a “term” seldom used today. But it has meaning.
Now you may ask what any of this has to do with the DISCUSSION OF whether THE CRUCIFIXION met the criteria of THE DAY OF ATONEMENT. The answer simply is no. Long ago i studied the PASSOVER. How THE LAMB was to be SLAIN….and prepared for cooking. THE LAMB HAD TO BE EATEN….every bit….none could remain. THE BLOOD WAS TO COVER THE DOOR….painted on with a branch of HYSSOP. The IMAGERY of THE PASSOVER is stupefying in it’s totality. For 12 years i celebrate it and each year i am awed by the things i learn that i had failed to “perceive” previously.
But Passover is “easy” because it already happened…TWICE….the shadow in EGYPT… the real thing in JERUSALEM.
YOM KIPPUR is another story….yes for 3500+ years it has been an annual requirement….but to look ahead to what will shortly be is something else. Not long ago i wrote to the WPA about THE SIMPLICITY OF CHRIST….in ESSENCE the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST is purposefully simple….in it’s FOUNDATION. Now what is BUILT UPON IT is the EDIFICE we can only see as through a glass darkly. Again some see according to the “measure we are given”…..…
but it is also upon that “measure” we each will be required to account for.
THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB upon our doorpost keep THE DEATH ANGEL AWAY….GOD’S ANGEL.…
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
25 And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.
Now i love “language”…how terms come together….even when the original expressions are 4000 years old and our “translation” is 400 years young. Above in read letters is a bit of GOD talking/instructing Moses.…
it comes from EXODUS 23.…
Verse 20….I WILL SEND AN ANGEL(MESSENGER…SERVANT….SON)….to KEEP you in THE WAY.…
“I AM THE WAY…THE TRUTH….and THE LIFE….” HE will BRING YOUSE ALL INTO “THE PLACE PREPARED
BY ME”…..JOHN 14….if we can believe JESUS there is a place prepared.…but John 14 talks about LOVING and OBEYING….too.… VERSE 21 says.… BEWARE.… OBEY.… PROVOKE HIM NOT….HE WILL NOT PARDON YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS because “MY NAME IS IN HIM”…..BEHOLD MY BELOVED SON….HEAR HIM.…
VERSE 22 says if you obey HIS VOICE AND DO WHAT I SPEAK.…
John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life
John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you
Let’s end with verse 25 and the BREAD OF LIFE and THE LIVING WATER.… Just 6 verses from the OLD TESTAMENT….and how many images and verses from THE NEW.…
In John 5 JESUS HIMSELF says this is so…and a whole lot more…
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Funny how JESUS finishes John 5….the PHARISEES did not “believe” MOSES.…
The BIG TORAH THUMPERS did not really believe what they were PREACHING. So what did they BELIEVE IN….their religion…their “BELIEF SYSTEM”….and if i can be crude… their “BS” that they demanded everyone else to follow. Yet if “the scriptures” are a “testimony” of THE MESSIAH JESUS there is something to them. Something the professional clergy and religious types are missing. Maybe something so simple that men wise in their own eyes can not see.
Purim will begin on March 17….Passover follows….WHY?
Maybe there is an IMAGE here…maybe a PATTERN….or even a SEQUENCE OF EVENTS.
ABBA SAID….LET US REASON TOGETHER….seems like a discussion.…
i like discussions….like in ISAIAH 1..…
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
Here THE LORD GOD says HE WILL RESTORE “”JUDGES”” and “”COUNCILORS” “…..selah….but HE GOES ON…
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
Verse 27 speaks of ZION…and her CONVERTS…interesting…i guess ABBA asked us to come and talk with HIM for a reason…so we would be reconciled and returned to a RELATIONSHIP with HIM….HE GAVE US HIS FEASTS TO TEACH US….to be a WITNESS to us…that speaks THE TRUTH…THE WHOLE TRUTH….and nothing but JESUS..…
i am open to any and all discussion that centers around JESUS….who isn’t?
16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Selah..…
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